this week's story: "In the Water" by gurrier

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

To get the ball rolling, I'm submitting a story of mine called In the Water.

Due South is the first fandom I've ever written in, and the first time I've written fiction since leaving school nearly 20 years ago. That's a long time without worrying about plot, structure, characterisation - anything! People have said nice things, which feels really good, but I'm left wondering. What didn't work? What could I do better? So i'd really appreciate some critical feedback.

This week's moderator is sprat, sprat75@gmail.com.

Comments

[tex.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure I can offer anything that didn't work in this story. But I can point out something that DID. And it's this passage --

"I know, I know, it only takes an extra second..." Ray follows him into the kitchen, pulls out a chair and slouches at the table. "But it's a slippery slope, Frase, a slippery slope. Start with 'good morning', and next thing, you'd be expecting 'thank you kindly' and door-holding and plates." He waves at the table to make his point. "Who knows where it'd all end."

Fraser just shakes his head fondly at him, and hands him his coffee. It's quiet while they eat, just the rustle of paper, the soft thunk of cups on the table.

Ray's voice is so on target - he's something of a smartass, but you know there is no sting in his words. He's entertaining Fraser. And he IS entertained. It's been a while since I read this the first time but I remember this passage so well because I thought "Yeah, that's it."

And then, the image of the two of them, together at the table, not talking, is just perfect. The stillness sets the mood for what's to come.

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

That's nice to hear! Ray can be so hyper, it's hard not to push him over into bitchiness and anger.

[xtricks.livejournal.com]

I don't think there's much that needs crit, so to speak. I like the general tone of calm in this story - often RayK POV stories are very high strung - angry/angsty/hyper - but this one is both in character and a Ray that's more in control (or taking control) of himself and his life.

The only thing that I might have taken in a different diretion is...

He stops beside Fraser, reaches for his chin, tilts his head. Fraser's got his polite little smile on, the one that says "Ray, my friend, I have no idea what you're doing." But he sits there, waits for Ray to clue him in.

I see Fraser as very quick on the uptake and someone who dosne't miss much - even if he acts as if he dosen't understand. I'm torn because I like this para but I also would imagine that Fraser already knew Ray was attracted.

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

Point! Especially after I'd had him notice the chlorine... I could claim that Fraser knew Ray was attracted, but wasn't expecting him to make a move, or that he was maintaining his cluelessness as cover. But truthfully I was thinking so much of Ray, I didn't pay enough attention to Fraser.

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

Glad you got this community off and running.

This story resonated with me because I'm not a very good swimmer either and have twice signed up for adult swimming lessons to try to improve! I love your description of Ray getting the hang of it: Roll, kick off, glide. He's streamlined now, the water flowing smoothly past. Arms extended, hands together, head not too high, not too low. It's like he's flying underwater, and he grins again. I never got that good!

I tended to agree with xtricks that Fraser would have had a pretty good idea what Ray was doing. I thought it might've worked better if Fraser had a slightly different look about him as he waited for Ray to make his move.

If you want a proofreading Nazi, in I had my suspicions - the scent of chlorine is quite distinctive you should use either a real em-dash or the double dashes people frequently use (and which you've used earlier in the story). Also, I think you might be supposed to put a comma before the dialogue in So he starts with "Remember a few months back, that boat, the Henry Adams?", and possibly also the one that says "Ray, my friend, I have no idea what you're doing." (though I like them better without!). Could be wrong there, though. There's an extra space you don't want in starts to back off , too.

I think the ending — Ray goes under — is great!

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

you should use either a real em-dash or the double dashes people frequently use (and which you've used earlier in the story)

Consistency would be good, wouldn't it?!

I've been thinking over your and xtrick's comments about Fraser, and I find I'm more strongly attached to the idea of clueless Fraser than I realised. Or at least to Fraser acting clueless, and not dropping that act - but I can't think of any canon moments to back up this impression.

With Frannie, he's clearly aware of her interest (who wouldn't be!) and ignoring it. With Thatcher though, there's more acknowledgement of the attraction, presumably because it's mutual and she's not hiding it. The more I think about it, the less sure I am how Fraser would behave in this situation, where he's attracted to someone whom he believes is attracted to him but ignoring it!

[zebra363.livejournal.com]

I find I'm more strongly attached to the idea of clueless Fraser than I realised. Or at least to Fraser acting clueless, and not dropping that act - but I can't think of any canon moments to back up this impression.

I'd be really interested in examples you come up with. I'm very attached to the idea of Fraser NOT putting on any kind of act with Ray, and I see anything less — even a momentary faked expression — as almost a lie. I wouldn't consider his behaviour with Frannie or Thatcher good indicators of his likely behaviour with Ray. However, I can't bring to mind canon examples either — that's just how I personally want him to be. Which is not very helpful, sorry! He's probably perfectly capable of looking clueless, if he thought the situation warranted it (as a protection for himself?).

I echo what kindkit says below about the erotic effect of the specific details you mention when Fraser responds. The part that especially does it for me is one big hand on Ray's hip, pulling him close. Hips, mmm mmm!

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

He's probably perfectly capable of looking clueless, if he thought the situation warranted it (as a protection for himself?).

Yeah, I picture Fraser doing clueless as protection, even with Ray. Maybe especially with Ray, as there's more emotional risk for him?

one big hand on Ray's hip, pulling him close. Hips, mmm mmm!

Everything about Ray is sexy! Fraser's a bit too pretty for my taste most of the time, but I do love his hands.

[kindkit.livejournal.com]

This is a beautiful story. The balance between Ray's literal swimming and the swimming/drowning-as-metaphor is very nicely handled, and the spareness of the language is extremely effective. Ray, in my view, tends to think (at least about his emotions) with his body first and his mind second, and you capture that here without falling into the trap of making Ray seem dumb.

I enjoyed the swimming sections so much that I was almost disappointed by the switch to the actual revelation scene with Fraser. Don't get me wrong, I liked that they got together, but there's something about the scene that breaks the mood a little. The fic might have been a little stronger, in terms of mood and atmosphere, without it--if you had just ended on Ray's intentions, his decision to go and talk to Fraser after swimming.

Or it might have helped to trim the last section a bit. The swimming sections are very brief and leave a lot unsaid, whereas the final section, especially in its early parts, seems a bit bogged down by detail--bagels and tea and coffee, Ray thinking that maybe Fraser would've already gone out, and so on. It could be that the contrast was precisely your intention, but in that case, it should've been played *up* a bit more. Right now I guess it's a little too betwixt-and-between.

I'm in two minds about Fraser's cluelessness, since I think much of his usual cluelessness (with Frannie, for instance) is largely an act, a performance he uses to defend himself. But on the other hand, I can imagine him simply being stunned and too uncertain to immediately respond to what Ray has said. And Ray could interpret that as cluelessness even though it isn't.

The moment at the end, when Fraser finally responds, is really quite marvelous. The specificity of the physical detail, especially of Fraser's kiss to Ray's throat, gives the moment a really sharp focus and the effect is highly erotic. There's a sense of a lot of desire being, just barely, reined in.

Finally, a few comments on specific passages. Or you might prefer to call them nitpicks. *grins*

Course, that only lasts a couple of lengths, and then he turns wrong, or forgets to breathe, and he's the skinny jittery guy with only a turtle at home again, but still.

This sentence doesn't quite work for me. The last part, "He's the skinny jittery guy . . ." feels a little too obvious, somehow. Throughout, you've been showing how Ray is gaining confidence and control over his life through the act of learning to swim. But here you tell us that, and I don't think you needed to.

no-one

This shouldn't be hyphenated. Normally "no one" is just two unhyphenated words.

"And the thing is, the thing is, it's more than that."

No nitpick here--I just wanted to mention this as a particularly nice bit of dialogue. The repetition of "the thing is" seems very Ray to me.

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

there's something about the scene that breaks the mood a little.

You put your finger right on the thing I had most trouble with in this story. I could see the beginning and the end, but the bridge between them just wouldn't come clear.

This sentence doesn't quite work for me.

::nods:: Yeah, re-reading the story now, months after I wrote it, that sentence really breaks the flow. Even more than the mood change you mentioned earlier, I think.

[riverlight.livejournal.com]

I'm so glad this community's getting off the ground! What a good idea.

Anyway, on to the story:
First off, I don't know that I ever left you feedback on this story, but I liked it quite a lot. The whole learn-to-swim thing definitely seems like something Ray would do. I can definitely picture him this way, going through life not caring that he can't swim because he thinks it's not important, but then realizing that it might be important after all and having his inability nag at him until he (impulsively?) decides to go learn.

and Fraser'd just be so fucking understanding and supportive.
Yes, definitely. Spot on, Ray!

He's been going under for a while now, and he's got to save himself.
I admit I found this a little startling, I think because it was so sudden. I was reading along about swimming and suddenly it was like, "oh, metaphor!" and it pulled me out of the story a bit. It's not necessarily something I'd change, because it's a good metaphor, I like it; but still, I found it a bit startling at that point in the narrative.

and he's the skinny jittery guy with only a turtle at home again, but still.
The first time I read this through, I had trouble with this sentence--I said to myself, "Wait, this is how we see Ray! That's not how he sees himself!" I tend to think of Ray as someone who's content with his life, who likes his job and has a good friend and is happy, even despite the fact that his wife has left him (maybe that's not necessarily true, but still.) And in that context I had trouble reconciling the way I see him with his awareness of his turtle and consequently his state of being alone. But if I think of him instead as having a definite, constant awareness of Stella leaving him, and being not quite reconciled to that (which I think is more likely) then this sentence makes more sense.
Does that make sense? I'm trying to phrase it well but I'm not sure if I'm conveying what I'm trying to!

"And a good morning to you too, Ray." Fraser's tone is a bit snippy, but the creases at the corners of his eyes tell their own story.
Love this. Really love this. That's totally Fraser to me--a litte snippy, but so affectionate. I totally adore Fraser with smile lines; what an image!

And I'll second what someone else said above about the passage about politeness being a slippery slope. That's so totally Ray-and-Fraser. I love it.

As for the debate over whether Fraser would know what Ray was doing, or whether he was actually clueless--here's what I think. It seems to me that this sentence: Fraser's got his polite little smile on, the one that says "Ray, my friend, I have no idea what you're doing." But he sits there, waits for Ray to clue him in. doesn't necessarily say that Fraser doesn't know what's going on. Ray might think of that particular smile as Fraser's "clue me in" smile, but maybe Ray's wrong. Maybe Fraser does have a good idea that Ray's attracted to him. But regardless, I definitely buy Fraser sitting there waiting for Ray to tell him. Fraser's not the sort of guy who's going to jump to conclusions and assume he knows what Ray's talking about. For that reason, the sentence There's no smile on Fraser's face now, no expression at all really resonated with me. He might have a damn good idea of what's going on, or he might not, but either way, he's not gonna show it until he's sure.

And yes, the last scene is wonderful, as other people have said!

So there we go--my thoughts. Hope they're helpful, and if not helpful, at least marginally coherent. :)

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

But if I think of him instead as having a definite, constant awareness of Stella leaving him, and being not quite reconciled to that (which I think is more likely) then this sentence makes more sense.

That's the way I think of Ray - still working out who he is now he's no longer part of Stella'n'Ray. I'd like to have shown it better though!

So there we go--my thoughts. Hope they're helpful, and if not helpful, at least marginally coherent. :)

Definitely! I'm pretty new to writing, still feeling my way. It's great when people leave squeeful feedback, but it's even better when they take the time to say what could be improved.

[nasrani.livejournal.com]

I think it's interesting that Ray's thoughts occurs in sudden short bursts. In the first part about swimming, his narrative flow feels halting.

The thing is, it does fit the um, mood of the swimming? A little like in tandem with his strokes of something.

Ending was very Fraser. His reaction was absolutely nailed. I can see him using his polite don't-understand-would-you-care-to-elaborate to face Ray at first and then when the truth finally sinks, he comes back with such intensity.

[/end of babbling critique]

All in all, yaay fic! :)

[gurrier.livejournal.com]

Ending was very Fraser.

It's been really interesting getting people's viewpoints on this! Everyone seems to have a different take on what's going on in Fraser's head, on how he would behave in this situation.