Writing from a different language/culture than the characters

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

How do you imagine what goes on inside a Mountie's head? Or how do you get inside the mind of a Chicago Flatfoot with experimental hair style? Or even worse, how do you even begin to write Diefenbaker, when your native language isn't Wolf, let alone English?

Let's start off easy: Hello, my penname is Ximeria, to many people simply known as 'Xim'. I'm here to ponder a topic that should have made me run for the hills back in 2001 when I first started writing fanfic.

See, I was born, and I still live, in a small country in Scandinavia (Denmark for those who are geography nerds or simply curious). For those who don't know, the language here is Danish, not English. Location wise, we're half-way around the globe from Chicago (give or take a bit).

So, what am I yammering about? Let's just say there are a few things that can seriously pull the writing experience to a grinding halt.



SIZE (it does matter, don't let them tell you otherwise...)

Everything here is small. This means one obstacle in writing a setting in a city like Chicago, USA, is the SIZE issue (not THAT size, please, I know it's fun down here in the gutter, but let's keep this at a certain level, eh?). I meant the size of the city, the buildings... everything, really.

CULTURE (a pesky thing, but getting it wrong can ruin any story)

This is Western Europe, but it's NOT the same culture as the US (sometimes we forget, until we try to write fanfic, that is).

LANGUAGE (we should all have a little yellow fish in our ear...)

So, how should it be treated? Is it a barrier or a dirty advantage?

THE HOLY GRAIL (or maybe just a few pieces of advice I've picked up over time)

How to best work your way around aforementioned problems.

---

Size
aka. Think BIG.

Simple everyday things are not the same. When I think supermarket, I have these smaller local supermarkets. They're pretty small but they fulfill my needs. When I think mal, I think the shopping center here in Odense. It's big.

By Danish standards, that is. It's probably really small compared to American standards.

Furthermore, what's on the shelves in the US? More importantly, can I buy lube anywhere in Chicago at 3AM? (And doughnuts, sorry, Dief!)

Culture
because we're really not as alike as we sometimes think.

As an example, an American cop doesn't react as a Danish cop would. Nor do people in general. We're so used to American TV and movies, that we think we know how anyone would react, from the cops to the pimps on the streets. Don't ask me what's worse, leaning on what you know from your own place or basing it on the fiction you see on the screen?

Still, you take the idea and run with it. Right until you try to write it and someone points out that you've got it wrong...

Sometimes you just want to sit down and cry. You think you've got this kick ass story with a head kicking plot and killer lines. And then someone comes along and tells you that 'A Chicago cop would never do/say that.'

*lower lip trembles*

Language
My English teacher would cry if she only knew how I put my abilities to use...

I consider it a dirty advantage, really. Or rather, I've learned to view it that way. Back when I started out, I was told to not let anyone know that I was from a non-English speaking country. When you get "That's pretty good English for a Dane" thrown at you from someone who thinks Denmark is the capitol of Sweden, you either feel slightly defeated or you snort and tell them that your English a damned lot better than their AOL infested comment - no insult intended. I think I gave up on reading that 'feedback' I received, because the grammar scared me out of my mind. Though if that's all the feedback you get, instead of some comment on the story itself? It puts a dent in your joy. Sure, we say we write for our own sakes, but it still sucks when the feedback focuses on something like that instead of what you've put into it.

So where's the advantage?

Let me tell you a little secret. One of my favorite betas isn't English either. She's German. We got to talking at one point about why I found it more helpful to have her check my grammar on occasion, than an American or a Brit.

Well, if I tell you that the people who speak the worst Danish in terms or grammar are Danes, then I think you might get it. If it's a language you've learned because you had to/wanted to, then you're often more focused on doing it right. We're always sloppier with the language we grow up with (*shushes the peanut gallery of people who are militant about their language -- I'm talking about the majority*).

Holy Grail
A little word of advice, maybe even two...

So, how do you work your way around it all?

There's the language. Yes, it can feel like one heck of a barrier, but you know what? Try. I cringe when I re-read some of my really old stuff, but it has served as one thing. It's been an exercise and the more I've worked with it, the better I've become at it. The less I feel like the language difference trips me at inopportune times.

Apart from that, you work your way around it like you always do. It's no fun if the entire focus of your story ends up being on the grammar and wording instead of the actual plot.

In terms of cultural differences, and let's not even mention the layout of Chicago or Inuvik... Well, it's all research really. We have, at hand, the internet. You need to work up an ability for cutting the bull out and throwing it away, or you'll end up with a lot of useless nonsense. Really, you can look up just about anything and there are maps of EVERYTHING (even the moon! I mean, if you're doing an AU and you're... okay, never mind...)

Above all else... never forget that you're not alone. Due South isn't a dying fandom, nor does it seem to be shrinking. On the contrary, it seems to be growing every day. There are people from all around the world, Chicago too (not sure about Inuvik, though...)

So, how do you maneuver through Chicago without making too many blunders that would make any Chicagoan groan and shake their heads?

Ask. If you have a question, ask someone in the fandom. If they don't know it, they can point you in the right direction. There are several place online that are a huge help.

Don't know your way around the police districts? Don't know if there's an East Side or West Side in Chicago? Either search for a map or ask.

Betas are hard to come by, great betas are even harder to find, but if luck is with you, you get one who won't just take your sentences apart, but who'll also be a help in picking out silly mistakes that are rooted in cultural misunderstandings or language construction. Even better, use more than one beta reader. All those wonderful people out there each have an area that they're really good at. Some are research geniuses, some are grammar crunchers and some are just plain awesome.

And the best thing about the fandom? People are more than happy to help.

*hearts fandom*

--xim--


The Goodie Bag:
(Research links)

Chicagocrime.org
It's a bit morbid, but you get a good idea of what crimes are happening, but best of all? You get a map of the police districts.

dues_research
Anything you need to ask for? Locations, chronology, anything relating to the Due South fandom. Go here to ask for help. They also have a lot of links that are perfect for research.

sga_canada_help
Don't be fooled by the SGA in the name of this community. It's meant as a help when you're trying to write something Canadian. Not Due South specific, but they can still help.

ds_writers
Looking for a beta reader? Got a question for which you can't seem to find the answer? This is your place.

Comments

[sage]

This is really, really interesting to me and I totally agree, it's all about research and practice. And that's still true if you're North American, since we're anything but a single unified culture. Chicago isn't very much like San Antonio or Los Angeles or Miami. A city of 4 million isn't like a college town of 60,000. Western Canada is different from Eastern Canada, etc.

Reading Canadian novels helps my sense of regional Canadian culture and helps me get a better handle on the show's Canadian characters. There's something that reading a novel does (full immersion, I guess?) that I don't get from watching Canadian TV shows or movies. Likewise, Chicago is its own thing, and reading helps me get the city a lot more fully than watching some sensationalized Hollywood version of it. Luckily with DS, Toronto is subbing in for Chicago and the show itself is a festival of things that don't make sense -- so there's a certain amount of leeway. :)

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Research is pretty much the key in any writing, yeah. There's no doubt about that.

Funny you should say that about reading a novel vs watching a TV show. Yes, of course depending on author, I can get a lot more out of a novel than a TV show, mostly because a novel goes at the speed the author sets, most TV shows pack as much as they can into 42 mins. Meaning a lot gets lost in the proces.

See, the leeway thing, yes. Thankfully, DS is a lot of suspend your disbelief as a series, so you can get away with a lot when writing fanfic. I find it one of the things that makes writing specifically DS fanfic that much more fun. I come right out of the Stargate SG1 fandom, where the slightest mistake was often pulled out of a story -- especially if it was related to the Air Force or the military etc. To me, DS is so very freeing to write LOL

[eledhwenlin]

Ah, cultural references. My nemesis. ;) Although I think I got a good grip on plotlines, i.e. what is acceptable behaviour, my cultural references tend to be ones I read somewhere else. I sometimes wonder whether that gives me a disadvantage - but I think any Brit or New Zealander or Autralian would have similar problems.

A bigger problem is (for me, at least) spelling. See, _I_ am much more in favour of British English - it's what I learned in school and once you lost points in an exam for spelling realise with a zed or writing center, well, you kind of get the message. ;) But it's something some of my betas consistently point out to me (which then usually leads to me writing Ray's parts in AE and Fraser's parts in BE, thus completely upsetting my spellchecker).

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, the everpresent Brit vs US spelling. I've had betas where the only thing they kept pointing out was that I used 'ou' instead of 'o' in spelling. That's so very... helpful... not.

I tend to choose beforehand what I want to do in a story. If I write from Fraser's POV, I tend to lean toward Brit spelling and word choices, if I write RayK, I tend to lean toward US. I try not to mix it too much, because it's stuff like that that will catch my eye when I'm reading a story, and interfere with the flow of the story. Even moreso, when people write Ray's accent/dialect heavier than necessary. It kind of derails my reading *g*

Upsetting the spell checker? Heh, yeah, I can see that happening XD

[0walking-naked0.livejournal.com]

Ok, ridiculously late comment, but hey.

To stop your spellchecker getting confused, set it to English(Canada), where both AE and BE spellings are accepted :D

I figured this out when I first started writing fic, especially DS fic, since a spellchecker is somewhat of a lifeline for me. Also, I'm Scottish but did a lot of my growing up in Canada, so I switch between the two spellings without noticing. And yes, my accent is very entertaining.

[revbiscuit.livejournal.com]

Interesting post. I've had quite a few of these things on my mind recently, because I find cultural references and use of language a real stumbling block when I try to write anything. Part of it is because I'm a bit of a stickler for details, and the moment I realise I truly don't know what I'm talking about I immediately get stuck. And I get stuck a lot.

As a reader, I find that whenever I come across dodgy facts of any kind it really throws me. It feels a bit like discovering someone's lying to you. OK, that's a bit strong, but the way it gets me is like here I am, you're telling me something and I am listening, I believe you. You've created a little world I can see in my head, your story is playing in front of me like a film. Then you chuck in something that is out of place, out of time or out of character. Really offputting.

In that sense, I agree with sageness in that cultural references can be an issue for anyone - even the best writers can get caught out by the little things, believe me - it's just that to people like us they can appear more daunting because we live so far away. I am actually surprised when things sort of match, because I'm always expecting stuff to be different all over the place.

And yes, I agree with you, research is key and so are good betas. Thank you for posting this, it really made me think.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

I am actually surprised when things sort of match, because I'm always expecting stuff to be different all over the place.

*laughs* I know exactly what you mean.

I'm glad you liked the entry. And yes, I almost renamed it to 'An Ode to Beta Readers' *g*

[missapocalyptic.livejournal.com]

I just wrote an e-mail to my beloved beta, in which I whined about those exact things you desribe.

It's not the grammar (or word choice or "school English") that bugs me, I'll trust my beta to fix that. It's just the way that I feel extremely limited when it comes to my possibility of expression, in two ways: a) on the language level and b) on the cultural level.

a) I have dictionaries and a thesaurus - but I can only get so far with that when it comes to the language of a Chicago flatfoot with experimantal hair. I always have the feeling that my Kowalski sounds incredibly laboured. Or I find something that sounds perfectly him - and then find out that I just used a very "Southern" expression he wouldn't use - or if he woudld I'd need a backstory like an aunt from Mississippi who always used tht phrase... well, it's exhausting, really.

b) references to television series every American aged 30 to 50 knows. Quotes from great authors, so common everyone uses them. Growing up in the Midwest of the 70's. Junk food brand names. Common knowledge, urban legends, collective subconscious... all of those things and a couple of thousand more are completely foreign territory to me. Of course, there are always many things about a character one has to develop a feeling for/do research, but if I were writing about a German character It'd be far fewer. And I don't just have to learn and read about many things, in the process of writing there are so many details I don't even consider, like... it'd feel strange to me to let a character get some groceries after 8 p.m. Stuff like that is like... out of my mental reach, as long as I don't specifically do research. Know what I mean? And all those things feel incredibly limiting in my writing. Like I'm missing thousands of references, details and attitudes that can bring a story to life.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

I remember when I started writing fanfic, I hated the fact that my vocabulary was as limited as it was. Since then, it's expanded a great deal, but I still occasionally have to stop writing because I'm unsure how to say what I want to say without some clunky, no good sentence. Just because I don't know a specific term/word.

Cultural injokes and references *sighs*. There are times when someone's explained a reference for me where I go 'ooooooooh' -- and I finally get it, even though I've actually heard the reference before, but never had the full benefit of it before just because I didn't know... So yeah, that's always a huge obstacle.

And yes, if I ever sat down and thought about all those things I don't know, I think I'd stop writing alltogether LOL.

[vsee.livejournal.com]

Wonderful, fascintating post. One thing that really struck me was you saying that you had people say to you, "a Chicago cop would never do that." This cracks me up competely, because of course the vast majority of people from North America have never had any interactions at all with police beyond getting a speeding ticket, if even that. I agree that we all have some nebulous idea how how Ray and his peers should act, but it's pure stereotype based on the show and on every bit of American TV we have watched since childhood, not reality.

You've been exposed to much the same fare, so in that sense, you've had pretty much the same prepartion as everyone else. I've had a lot of interactions in my work with all kinds of professional people...lawyers, judges, cops, doctors, etc, and one thing that always strikes me is that people are usually better than the stereotypes of their professions--more easily able to get a along with people, professional, courteous, etc. Raging egomaniacs and assholes reign supreme on TV, but in real life, if you can't get along with people, you'll never be successful enough to get into those postions of power. Cops are more professional to the face of the public, and probably WAY rougher away from the public than they are on TV. For a good perspective about being a detective in America, you might enjoy reading the book that the TV show Homicide was based on, called Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets (http://www.amazon.com/Homicide-Killing-Streets-David-Simon/dp/0805080759/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-9513569-4094558?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1179577594&sr=8-1), by David Simon.

I live in the region of Chicago, and I've gone there numerous times over the years, but even I feel like no expert, because I go there as a tourist. Most of the time, I am there to go to the art museum, and to walk through the main shopping areas, or to just hang in Millenium park to watch people. But even as just someone who lives in the same basic kind of cultural milieu as the show is supposed to be set in....nothing feels much like home to me in the show. It feels pure TV unreality, and that is OK with me. I much prefer that fiction feel like the universe it is set in and not like reality anyway. That's what is going to feel homey and right to me.

That being said, here are just a few things that feel real and not real to me. Of all the characters, Welsh (even with his gruff cop Lt. stereotype crust) feels most like a real person who might live around here. But that may be that he's least "TV character" in most ways, more like just an ordinary guy. Stella, with maybe just a little less of shrewish edge isn't that far off the lawyers I've known.

As far as the accents go, they are terrible. Welsh sounds entirely New York to me. Ray V is so obviously Philadelphia, no way did he grow up around here. Ray K's put- on accent is pretty terrible, but I know what he's trying for, anyway. The only part of that that is right is the nasality. Midwest US speech is quite nasal. There are at least two Chicago accents, but like most regional accents they have more to do with age and class...the older and poorer you are, the more likely you are to have some accent. The VAST majority of people you hear on the street will have no particular American accent beyond what I think of as the nondescript way newscasters or generic characters speak on TV. The plain Midwestern accent was the one most adopted on TV, I'm guessing, when these things were becoming more standardized long ago. The accent where I actually live is even more like the Canadian accent than the majority in Chicago. The Canadian actors who are speaking totally naturally sound the most accurate to me--though I am sure that people who grew up in Canada can hear more differences than I can between those that grew up in the West and the East.

(continued...)

[vsee.livejournal.com]

(...continued)

Two things I associate with Chicago that aren't part of the show universe at all: 1. There are many more African American people in Chicago than you will ever see on TV, in all economic classes and professional situations. Once again, maybe that is just the TV-land effect, where everything is richer and whiter than reality.

And 2. On TV, transportation is always a snap, and it is fast and easy to drive anywhere you like. Nothing could be farther from the truth in reality. Chicago SUCKS for transportation, but there is lots of it. I haven't done a lot on the bus there, and have traveled a bit on the train, mostly in and out of the city. I've never quite been able to grasp where the precinct is supposed to be or where either of them live, but Chicago is enormous--not even getting into the miles and miles of sprawling Chicagoland suburbs (that go pretty much to the northern border of Illinois) and a great deal of it is not at all pedestrian friendly. Even downtown where the tourists go, things are spread out and walks are VERY long. This goes with what you were saying about the size of things here. Everything is very spread out and designed for cars, not people. Streets are choked with traffic and really hard to cross. During the peak traffic times walking downtown, you need both the steet light and a traffic cop to get across in a cross walk. If they had to park downtown, they would have trouble finding a place to put the car, even if they had some kind of special permit that would let them leave the car without getting towed. Most people who have a car downtown are parking underground, and paying between $15-25 an hour for parking, at least where tourists go.

But as I said, I prefer the Chicago of the DS universe to reality, and I think it wouldn't be that far off if Fraser and Ray were working in some neighborhood, and not spending a lot of time downtown, which kind of seems to be the case.

Circling back around to my original point, about the reaction of "a Chicago cop would never do that." I think maybe what people are reacting to is not so much the idea of "Cop" or "Chicago" but some cultural idea of how men are supposed to act, which is enough of a balancing act without throwing in all the unrequited lust and talking about their feelings. *g*

Thanks for the thought provoking post.

(This is the first time I exceeded the comment length. :::blush:::)

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

This is the first time I exceeded the comment length. :::blush:::

\o/ yay!

I love how you've commented with stuff like the parking opportunities and the dialects/accents of the characters. I thought as much when I saw the show the last time. The dialects are a little too mixed for me to buy them as what they're supposed to be.

But as I said, I prefer the Chicago of the DS universe to reality, and I think it wouldn't be that far off if Fraser and Ray were working in some neighborhood, and not spending a lot of time downtown, which kind of seems to be the case.

That's the glory of the show. There's a lot of 'suspend your disbelief' involved, so with enough tongue in cheek, writing becomes fun instead of a daunting task. I think that's why I haven't run screaming for the hills yet and why the DS fandom makes me feel so much more relaxed than for example Stargate SG1 ever did.

And you've got a point on the last one as well. The fact that it's more a guy thing than a cop/Chicago resident thing. I think we could discuss how a man would react/think until the cows come home and still not reach a decission. I mean, I don't mind guys with feelings, but I prefer a certain balance. They're human beings, so they react according to their personality, not a template for 'MAN' heh. So yeah, I get that one. We're women, we can only guess at what goes on inside of a man's head, right?

[vsee.livejournal.com]

OK, I've never been part of the whole Stargate scene, so I find it very funny that you say it is more detail-crucial to write a world that is mostly a fictional place than a show that is based on two or three real places. Hee! Doesn't it seem that it should be easier to extrapolate your own imaginary details on a made up place? (Maybe not!)

I think DS is one of the more forgiving places to play...it takes drama and humor equally well, it takes detailed stories and ridiculous plot twists to explain how to get them into whatever situation your heart desires. So I say put your energies and put them toward making the guys seem like themselves and let the rest of the universe sort itself out.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Heh, well, you'd be amazed how many SG1 fans are either military and or have friends/family within the military. And they can be rather vicious about it, heh. Besides, the amount of wank in that fandom was often only outdone by Smallville *smiles fondly*

And yes, the DS fandom is like a nice, calm holiday resort compared XD

[kill-claudio.livejournal.com]

Oh wow, that's all so useful! I've always wondered about the accents, particularly as CKR is Canadian and was born in Britain. And I'm sure someone once mentioned that there is no 27th District, and Maxwell St doesn't go up to 1219, which would make sense.

If I ever have the odd Chicago question that I can't get Google or dues_research to answer for me, would you be happy to have them directed at you?

[vsee.livejournal.com]

I am no expert, as I have said, but of course, I am always happy to try to be helpful in any way I can. Also bear in mind that part of my feeling about the whole thing is that a story is going to feel better and more realistic the more internal sense it has with the series, and not necessarily with reality. Going for a realistic detail can be fun, and it can be an inspirational detail for a jumping off point, but one thing it isn't, IMO, is *necessary*.

[nos4a2no9.livejournal.com]

I've been encountering these problems from the other direction: I'm from northern Canada and it's a little disorienting to read so many post-CotW stories written by Americans, Brits, Aussies and other Europeans (or other Canadians) set in a culture very few people are familiar with or have experienced first-hand. Some of the subtlies in culture, weather and common expression escape a lot of writers because there are little-to-no resources available on those aspects of life in northern Canada beyond municipal websites, a few books and the occaisonal blog. And, obviously, no one in the fandom would notice except me and perhaps troyswann.

I don't think it would be appropriate to correct authors (except in cases of grievous error or misrepresentation) because usually it's something small and hardly worth correcting, something that only a person native to the region would even pick up on. And I'd hate to niggle over tiny details when the story is excellent in every other way. Just as an example, one of the ds_aprilfools stories referenced my hometown (Fraser and Ray were living there) and I had mentioned that tidbit in my feedback for the story (which I loved). This made the author a little nervous because she hadn't expected anyone familiar with the area to be reading the story.

I suppose my question would be, would authors want me to comment on this material if it's only slightly incorrect? Or would my small niggling distract from how the story as a whole is operating? I know this would probably come down to individual preference and an author's commitment to realism vs. what would best serve the needs of the story, but how should those of us with first-hand experience to offer conduct ourselves when we notice small inconsistencies?

[sage]

oh god, if you wanted to put together a post on the mistakes you see made most frequently for this community, I would love you forever!! I spend so much time trying for a vague impression of accuracy, but researching something with so few sources is near impossible and so frustrating. Would you mind? It could be a separate feature, totally apart from the craft series.

[nos4a2no9.livejournal.com]

I'm such a dope - I've been wracking my brain trying to come up with something to offer this community and it never occured to me that people might, y'know, be interested in northern Canadian culture. /is pretty like whoah

I'd love to do this as part of the craft series: when would be a good time to post? I know you've contributors lined up for the next few weeks, so just slot me in and I'll whip something up.

[sage]

Okay, we could do this one of two ways. There's one person on deck as of now, so hopefully she'll post around midweek of next week. The following post should about a week after that. If that timeframe works for you, then YAY! It's yours!

BUT! If you're inspired and want to do something (*cough*now*cough*) sooner than that, then by all means! We can just make it a feature essay outside of the series.

I guess it mostly depends on how long you want to work on it. I don't know if you have a list of pet peeves on hand or if you want to spend a little bit of time gathering examples of mistakes...so truly, whichever works best for you. :D

And YAY! I can't wait!! I love setting and specific detail SO MUCH (as everyone knows because I go on and on and ON about it) and this is exactly what I've been hoping for! *twirls you*

[nos4a2no9.livejournal.com]

If you're okay making it a feature outside of the craftwork series, I'd like to put some time into the essay and gather some examples (from willing authors only, of course) and post it sometime before the end of May. Would that work?

[sage]

That works beautifully! Yay, I'm so excited! :D

And if you have questions about use of examples, just let me know. Offhand, I'd say that anonymous (common) generalizations are fine, but specific quotes should have author permission.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

*laughs*
I can't even begin to imagine how I'd feel if I were Canadian and read the CotW stories.

There's a loaded question. I find it slightly off putting when I'm corrected during the writing process, at least if it's minor errors. However, I feel pretty much the same way if the correction comes after I've posted LOL. I have a general agreement with my beta readers -- I don't give them the story until I'm done with the first version of it. They don't get bits while I'm writing. Mostly because it breaks my writing flow if I have to go back and make corrections in the middle of the story.

That said, if a beta reader points out to me that there are errors that have to do with culture or similar obstacles, then I do want them. It's just easier, at least to me, to take those things into account when the skeleton of the story itself is done.

Would I want corrections? Absolutely. Though as you say, pointing out small flaws could be considered niggling in a bad way. However, to me, it would depend on how it's served. If it's all the comment you get, then I'd be annoyed with it, but if it's part of a comment with likes/dislikes of the story itself, then by all means, it is as welcome as any other kind of feedback.

[kill-claudio.livejournal.com]

I suppose my question would be, would authors want me to comment on this material if it's only slightly incorrect?

I'm probably going to regret saying this, but I am always happy to hear corrections. If it's really small, or I think it's a bit petty, I may not change it, but the next time I'm writing I will remember, and it will help.

Maybe it's something to do with the fact that I almost never look at one of my stories and think 'it's finished'. I look at it and think 'damn, the deadline's tomorrow', or maybe 'if I have to read this bloody thing one more time I will cry', but never 'oh look, I'm completely satisfied!'

[keerawa.livejournal.com]

Note to self: make nos4a2no9 or troyswann beta anythign set in Northern Canda. And, yes, please do let me know if you come across anything odd in my writing.

[kill-claudio.livejournal.com]

What a BRILLIANT essay. I don't think I have much helpful to add that hasn't already been said, but allow me to contribute to the goodie bag - drop_the_u, a community where you can ask questions about American language and culture. The people are wonderful and helpful, and I've found reading throught the comments very useful. Someone from dS fandom pointed me to them, and I can't remember who, otherwise I would go back and thank them.

I've found my biggest problem is that I am a native English speaker, and I will be merrily and carelessly typing away when some British phrase (flat, lift, rubbish, candy floss) will creep in without me noticing. And all my colloquialisms are British, so I worry sometimes that my dialogue lacks colour.

You made a great point that second-language English speakers often have more precise grammar and spelling, and God knows I'm sloppy much of the time; but I think we're fortunate in fandom that most of the people here are, if not writers themselves, voracious readers, and by extension they tend to love the English language and want to see it written correctly and vividly. Yay! for betas. And Yay! for fandom. \o/

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Thank you for the link to the community -- see, that's what makes it hard sometimes finding the helpful communites. On the other hand, I love how everyone pitches in here. The more places we have for help/research, the better *g*

Heh, yes, I adore betas as well and the fandom at large. People tend to help instead of just whining about mistakes/typos etc. Mostly everyone is really good about giving a hand, sharing advice and hard learned lessons ^_^

[luzula]

Interesting. I would be nervous of writing in dS partly because of this whole problem. I'm from Sweden, and while I did live two years in the US when I was young, after that I've gotten most of my English from reading (I read a lot more than I watch TV). So I would be scared of writing dialogue, because I'm not good at slang expressions. I think it's significant that the one piece of fanfic I've ever written did not contain one line of dialogue. I could conceivably write Fraser, since he doesn't use much slang, but I couldn't write the Rays.

But, well, fandom is a lovely place even if you don't write yourself. : )

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

If you ever decide to write, you could get around the dialogue heavy stuff by, well, as you already said, not having it.

I've read longer pieces with next to no dialgue and they've worked just as well as dialgue-only stories -- sometimes even better.

What can I say? It's a matter of practice. I still laugh when I look at my early stuff and I've taken to keeping it on my website as a lesson in humility.

Watching a show will help with the dialogue, though. Should you ever want the series, I think I can scrounge up the episodes and send to you, if you don't already have them. I've found it helps me a lot to review episodes to get in the mood and to find the character voices.

[chesamus.livejournal.com]

I think the biggest point to make here is that the dS community is so willing to assist an author with any questions they might have.

We are fortunate to have those willing and talented betas - some fan sites practically stone you if you make even the slightest continuity error. I would hate to think that promising writers are finding their voices silenced because no one took the time or made the effort to offer constuctive criticism.

[ximeria.livejournal.com]

Oh absolutely. I was amazed when I got into Due South (just before season 4 came out on DVD). I asked around for episodes because it wasn't easy getting the discs over here and I sort of wanted to wait to see if there might be a box set of at least 3+4 before I bought anything.

People shared all the episodes. Old eps recorded from TV, converted to .avi format and shared. More than willingly. I haven't seen that spirit in any other fandom, I think.

Now, thanks to an American fan, I've got a box of 3+4 -- and i didn't even know her. She offered to get it for me and ship it. Gotta love such helpful fans.

As for writing. Yes. It's easier to get help here than in any other fandom I've ever been in. Or rather, it's easier to find good help. What people don't know, they'll help you figure out.

The tone is fabulous, yes. Compared to the Sentinel fandom, in which I did dip my toes for a little while, it's heaven. Around here you don't get your head ripped off for errors very often and people seem to want to help you along instead of keep you down.