Thoughts About Voices
Feb. 11th, 2006 02:38 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
joandarck.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
ds_workshopPlease assume IMHOs sprinkled liberally throughout, okay?
So, I'm here to talk about character voices, or specifically, dialogue. As a fanfic reader, voices are very important to me. Life is short and I don't want to just read a decent story: I want to feel that it's definitely about characters from the show. Getting dialogue to sound right isn't the most important thing; you could have an excellent story where the characters never speak at all. But I do think it's vital not to get it wrong.
A story that gets the dialogue wrong breaks the spell for me faster than anything. No matter how excellently written it is or how well it pushes my buttons, it's all over if a British character sounds obviously American or a Tolkein elf starts shouting "Fâ-k me, Gimli, f--k me!" (Real. Life. Example. Don't make me come back there and give you the URL.)
Of course, there are lots of ways to get it right. Maybe you're able to write dialogue that sounds like the actors are reading it to you off the page. Maybe you can present a perfect character POV. Maybe you make the characters so your own that anything they say becomes right by definition. But the rest of us have a problem.
Part of the problem being that the dialogue on the show isn't necessarily 'consistent.' Of course, real people aren't that simple and predictable. And different episodes had different writers. Above all, an actor can force any line to become part of a coherent characterization just by saying it. You hear it in the same voice, you see the same face, and if the acting sells it, you accept it. Take Fraser: he favours lengthy speeches and formal phrasing, but he also says "gonna" and "You got it." But try giving him those lines in a story: it doesn't exactly scream 'Fraser!'
And retreating to the opposite end of the scale and using nothing but recognizable phrases becomes cliche, which is also bad for the reader. Everyone's entitled to the occasional "Greatness" and the smorgasbord of Fraser's nervous tics, but pile them on all at once and all it conveys is "You are reading fanfic."
The positive side to this inconsistency is it means, for Due South, you've got a lot of room to manoeuver before dialogue becomes truly wrong. Fraser can swear and RayK can make flowery speeches: that's canon. So if most of the story consists of things-they-wouldn't-necessarily-NOT-say, that's probably good enough.
And one great thing for fan fiction writers, speaking as a reader, is we know what you're aiming for and we want it to work; give us a smidge of what we came for and we will do our best to meet you halfway. Still, a willing reader asks only a decent canvas to project onto; a picky reader wants to be forced to see. (I don't mean that in some judgmental sense, we all read differently in different moods.) To bring the feeling home, you have to take your base of not-wrong and add more.
For purposes of argument, I'm going to say that I've noticed two approaches:
1) Imitate the episodes. Make it a priority to reproduce the characters' language and mannerisms. Pepper your field of not-wrong with careful descriptions of recognizable moments, so the reader says "Yes. I can see that."
Also, creating the right mood around a line can sell it more than the words â if the emotions and situation are familiar, a simple line can seem oh-so-right. If you're convinced RayK's nervous, if Fraser's in his space, if his voice breaks a little, then suddenly it's not just the word "Okay," it's RayK's "Okay." Oh sorry, is my slash bias showing?
If you veer from canon, keep it in the spirit: for example, the issue of swearing. You can take the level of swearing seen on the show as canon and stick to it, or you can figure the kind of "Chicago hard guy" these cops are supposed to be would swear more, and show them that way, without altering the essential characterisation. Like changing key but not the melody.
2) Do your own thing well. Write something that's not what you'd see if you put on the DVD, but it's internally consistent. Use your own style, your own narrative viewpoint, your own type of subject matter. It doesn't have to have crimes or rubber ducks. If the story is good in itself and the characterization is still recognizable, then readers can transpose from your world to their own notions of Due South without trouble. Rather like identifying with a song on the radio: the details differ, but the emotional meaning is universal.
In fact, 'right' dialogue can break the mood of one of these stories as badly as 'wrong' can. If we're drifting along on an elegant narrative voice full of deep feeling and suddenly Ray Kowalski mentions "our skinny asses" â whiplash!
So, in summary: On the show, the actors lend the characters reality. We can't count on getting the same effect just by using dialogue that might have been said on the show. So we try to use the phrases or describe the habits that most strongly suggest the character. But that attempt leads naturally to stereotype, giving predictable dialogue and exaggerated, simplified characterization (e.g. Prissy Aunt Fraser.)
There: one way to state the problem. Any thoughts? I'm very curious how other people think about these things. Also,![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
china_shop suggested that I include some examples of dialogue that works for me. What a very good idea that would have been to follow. So if instead of talking theory you'd like to provide examples of lines that sound just right to you, the ones that really force you to hear the voice, please share.
So, I'm here to talk about character voices, or specifically, dialogue. As a fanfic reader, voices are very important to me. Life is short and I don't want to just read a decent story: I want to feel that it's definitely about characters from the show. Getting dialogue to sound right isn't the most important thing; you could have an excellent story where the characters never speak at all. But I do think it's vital not to get it wrong.
A story that gets the dialogue wrong breaks the spell for me faster than anything. No matter how excellently written it is or how well it pushes my buttons, it's all over if a British character sounds obviously American or a Tolkein elf starts shouting "Fâ-k me, Gimli, f--k me!" (Real. Life. Example. Don't make me come back there and give you the URL.)
Of course, there are lots of ways to get it right. Maybe you're able to write dialogue that sounds like the actors are reading it to you off the page. Maybe you can present a perfect character POV. Maybe you make the characters so your own that anything they say becomes right by definition. But the rest of us have a problem.
Part of the problem being that the dialogue on the show isn't necessarily 'consistent.' Of course, real people aren't that simple and predictable. And different episodes had different writers. Above all, an actor can force any line to become part of a coherent characterization just by saying it. You hear it in the same voice, you see the same face, and if the acting sells it, you accept it. Take Fraser: he favours lengthy speeches and formal phrasing, but he also says "gonna" and "You got it." But try giving him those lines in a story: it doesn't exactly scream 'Fraser!'
And retreating to the opposite end of the scale and using nothing but recognizable phrases becomes cliche, which is also bad for the reader. Everyone's entitled to the occasional "Greatness" and the smorgasbord of Fraser's nervous tics, but pile them on all at once and all it conveys is "You are reading fanfic."
The positive side to this inconsistency is it means, for Due South, you've got a lot of room to manoeuver before dialogue becomes truly wrong. Fraser can swear and RayK can make flowery speeches: that's canon. So if most of the story consists of things-they-wouldn't-necessarily-NOT-say, that's probably good enough.
And one great thing for fan fiction writers, speaking as a reader, is we know what you're aiming for and we want it to work; give us a smidge of what we came for and we will do our best to meet you halfway. Still, a willing reader asks only a decent canvas to project onto; a picky reader wants to be forced to see. (I don't mean that in some judgmental sense, we all read differently in different moods.) To bring the feeling home, you have to take your base of not-wrong and add more.
For purposes of argument, I'm going to say that I've noticed two approaches:
1) Imitate the episodes. Make it a priority to reproduce the characters' language and mannerisms. Pepper your field of not-wrong with careful descriptions of recognizable moments, so the reader says "Yes. I can see that."
Also, creating the right mood around a line can sell it more than the words â if the emotions and situation are familiar, a simple line can seem oh-so-right. If you're convinced RayK's nervous, if Fraser's in his space, if his voice breaks a little, then suddenly it's not just the word "Okay," it's RayK's "Okay." Oh sorry, is my slash bias showing?
If you veer from canon, keep it in the spirit: for example, the issue of swearing. You can take the level of swearing seen on the show as canon and stick to it, or you can figure the kind of "Chicago hard guy" these cops are supposed to be would swear more, and show them that way, without altering the essential characterisation. Like changing key but not the melody.
2) Do your own thing well. Write something that's not what you'd see if you put on the DVD, but it's internally consistent. Use your own style, your own narrative viewpoint, your own type of subject matter. It doesn't have to have crimes or rubber ducks. If the story is good in itself and the characterization is still recognizable, then readers can transpose from your world to their own notions of Due South without trouble. Rather like identifying with a song on the radio: the details differ, but the emotional meaning is universal.
In fact, 'right' dialogue can break the mood of one of these stories as badly as 'wrong' can. If we're drifting along on an elegant narrative voice full of deep feeling and suddenly Ray Kowalski mentions "our skinny asses" â whiplash!
So, in summary: On the show, the actors lend the characters reality. We can't count on getting the same effect just by using dialogue that might have been said on the show. So we try to use the phrases or describe the habits that most strongly suggest the character. But that attempt leads naturally to stereotype, giving predictable dialogue and exaggerated, simplified characterization (e.g. Prissy Aunt Fraser.)
There: one way to state the problem. Any thoughts? I'm very curious how other people think about these things. Also,
china_shop suggested that I include some examples of dialogue that works for me. What a very good idea that would have been to follow. So if instead of talking theory you'd like to provide examples of lines that sound just right to you, the ones that really force you to hear the voice, please share.
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no subject
Date: 2006-05-21 10:10 am (UTC)So there must be something essentially them that can transcend exact duplication of speech.
Logically, there must be, yes. But you know what, I rarely read AUs, and - I think it's true to say I've never managed to get more than a few sentences into a historical one? - because the writer has to be that much better, and sell it that much more actively, and in general they don't.
So, a different question: what are the other ways of selling character that aren't dialogue style? Physical description, really characteristic behaviour, interactions that imitate bits from episodes in a different setting, ...?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-21 10:45 am (UTC)*blush* Well, yes, but there's a reason I set that challenge. :)
I think it's true to say I've never managed to get more than a few sentences into a historical one?
Have you tried Current by
Just curious to know if any of them work for you.
what are the other ways of selling character that aren't dialogue style? Physical description, really characteristic behaviour, interactions that imitate bits from episodes in a different setting, ...?
*nods* All that. Mannerisms. Also action and reaction. Relationships (eg Fraser and Dief). And something deeper, like, um, (I'm trying to shy away from the word "soul" here) core beliefs. Hmm. I need to go now, but I'll think on this some more.
Oh, oh, before I go. Have you read Viridian's past life series? Ashes and Fire, and others (if you scroll down here).
Sorry, I don't mean to throw AUs at you when you've expressed lack of interest. Feel free to ignore me. I just... I think there's some lesson there about character. Will mull.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-23 08:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-05-26 12:35 pm (UTC)Am I covering old ground? I don't know.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-27 02:34 am (UTC)So yes, acting in character is more important than dialogue - although I suspect that if the dialogue had been really good it could have convinced me that they were still in character, just as the show itself can convince me they'd do various things I wouldn't have expected, just by showing it happen.
And on the other hand, if it were simply someone acting in line with Fraser's ideals, but not particularly sharing his quirks, that wouldn't be good enough for me. I'm really a lazy reader most of the time. I don't actively try to picture them, I expect someone to make me see it. That connection between the words on the page and the characters is too tenuous in most fic to support added strain like removing most of the familiar markers - especially dialogue, since a lot of personality and culture is expressed through speech patterns - and I just have no interest in reading stories about what's basically a couple of guys with a vague resemblance to the characters, it makes me feel bored and lost.
Aaand now I'm repeating myself, sorry.
no subject
Date: 2006-05-27 04:51 am (UTC)I'm awash with curiosity! Send me a link? *blinks hopefully*
So do you think we've covered everything, or there a missing X factor in writing a character convincingly?
no subject
Date: 2006-05-27 07:14 am (UTC)I don't have a link - for obvious reasons *g* - but I can send you more details.
a missing X factor in writing a character convincingly
What they do, how they do it, why they do it; what they say, how they say it; how they interact; what they look like. I don't know, I'm out. Anyone else? she said hopefully, as if anyone were still reading this post?