Craft series #1 - voice
Feb. 13th, 2007 04:10 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
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Hi! This is the first post in what I hope will be an ongoing Craft of Writing series. The way it works is I'm going to pick a question off the list, give my thoughts on how it can be resolved, and then in the comments, we'll talk about it. If you have alternate suggestions, great! If you want something elaborated, also great! The thing is, we want to keep this discussion fairly close to the topic in question, so if this inspires OTHER, totally unrelated how-to questions, please go add them to the list!
Following this post, I'll do an Admin post requesting a volunteer to take on another question.
fspider suggested:
Something about developing voices/dialogue? You hear about writers "hearing" a character's voice, but how do you reach that point lacking a lightening bolt?
I'm starting with this one because I'm one of those people who can hear characters' voices -- in fact, I can't write in a fandom until I do hear their voices clearly in my head and I only really get blocked when I can't hear them anymore. Part of why I haven't been writing much DS fic lately is I'm having a lot of trouble hearing Fraser and RayK talking, so maybe answering this will be useful for me, too.
I'm not a visual person -- when I close my eyes, all I see is blackness, but I hear things in the void. When I start writing something, I close my eyes and listen for the characters to show up and start talking. It's sort of like being in a dimly lit theater and waiting for the characters to come out on stage. Gradually I figure out who wants to be the POV character and what story it is he or she feels compelled to show me.
Then, suddenly, they're in the scene, words are flowing, and all I have to do is transcribe it. (And then clean it up in editing so it makes sense to people who aren't me. :P)
Now, as far as getting the voice clearly, I do a lot of things, some of which are kind of silly. The ones everyone will tell you are:
1. listen to good episodes, where the characterization in the ep is exactly fitting with the story swimming around in your head. (Some Frasers are more Fraserish than others (same with RayK); Stella, Frannie, and Meg are notoriously inconsistent; Vecchio post-Vegas is different than in the Pilot, etc.) When you listen more than you watch, you hear the rhythm, the pauses, the breaths, the muttering, the undertone of life that you miss from reading the transcript or watching with the sound off (which are good for looking for other things). Thing is, just watching normally doesn't work for me because I get caught up in the ep and forget to pay attention to how they sound. So, listening. :)
2. read classic fic. I reread
resonant8 when I need a voice-check, because her work helped define the characters in my head when I was brand-new to fandom. My Fraser isn't her Fraser, but her Fraser helps turn the volume up on my inner Fraser's voice so I can better understand what he's saying and get it onto the page. I'm sure everyone has their favorite touchstone authors/fics that they return to when they feel like they've lost their connection to a character -- Res-fic happens to work best for me. :)
3. get into their heads (and/or their skin). Beating muses into submission has never worked for me -- they just laugh at me and clam up even worse than before. Seduction works better, so sometimes I immerse myself in things the characters value -- kind of taking them on a date doing something they love, so they'll let their walls down and let me see (hear) who they are. Music works for a lot of people. In my head, RayK has a huge thing for Joe Strummer and young Frannie was over the moon for Madonna. Sometimes I buy food they would eat (arctic smoked salmon for Fraser). Sometimes I look through my closet and think about the clothes they wear and what that says about them. Writing about flannel or silk or leather happens differently when you and your POV character are both wearing it.
As far as the dialogue itself, the thing is, they talk to each other. An episode of Due South isn't 45 minutes of silent brooding punctuated by car chases. They're chatty, snarky/courteous, opinionated guys, and it can be fun to start a scene in the middle of a conversation and let it run a little to see where they take it -- and then to see how it continues when an armed robbery (or whatever) interrupts their flirting and they have to do some actual policework before they can go home and make out over hockey and Chinese. *g*
I'm not sure if this covers what you were looking for in your questions -- or if it makes sense to anyone who isn't in my head, so please please ask questions and I'll try to make things clear! :D
And if anyone has other solutions for ways to better hear and convey voice -- or if you have other voice-related questions, please say so in comments!
Thanks!! :D
ETA: I forgot one thing I used to do all the time before my jaw started giving me trouble. Read aloud! Nothing tells you whether you have the flow of their voices down like actually speaking the words on the page (and it also helps you find those annoying elided and's and the's that you miss when skimming). :)
Following this post, I'll do an Admin post requesting a volunteer to take on another question.
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Something about developing voices/dialogue? You hear about writers "hearing" a character's voice, but how do you reach that point lacking a lightening bolt?
I'm starting with this one because I'm one of those people who can hear characters' voices -- in fact, I can't write in a fandom until I do hear their voices clearly in my head and I only really get blocked when I can't hear them anymore. Part of why I haven't been writing much DS fic lately is I'm having a lot of trouble hearing Fraser and RayK talking, so maybe answering this will be useful for me, too.
I'm not a visual person -- when I close my eyes, all I see is blackness, but I hear things in the void. When I start writing something, I close my eyes and listen for the characters to show up and start talking. It's sort of like being in a dimly lit theater and waiting for the characters to come out on stage. Gradually I figure out who wants to be the POV character and what story it is he or she feels compelled to show me.
Then, suddenly, they're in the scene, words are flowing, and all I have to do is transcribe it. (And then clean it up in editing so it makes sense to people who aren't me. :P)
Now, as far as getting the voice clearly, I do a lot of things, some of which are kind of silly. The ones everyone will tell you are:
1. listen to good episodes, where the characterization in the ep is exactly fitting with the story swimming around in your head. (Some Frasers are more Fraserish than others (same with RayK); Stella, Frannie, and Meg are notoriously inconsistent; Vecchio post-Vegas is different than in the Pilot, etc.) When you listen more than you watch, you hear the rhythm, the pauses, the breaths, the muttering, the undertone of life that you miss from reading the transcript or watching with the sound off (which are good for looking for other things). Thing is, just watching normally doesn't work for me because I get caught up in the ep and forget to pay attention to how they sound. So, listening. :)
2. read classic fic. I reread
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
3. get into their heads (and/or their skin). Beating muses into submission has never worked for me -- they just laugh at me and clam up even worse than before. Seduction works better, so sometimes I immerse myself in things the characters value -- kind of taking them on a date doing something they love, so they'll let their walls down and let me see (hear) who they are. Music works for a lot of people. In my head, RayK has a huge thing for Joe Strummer and young Frannie was over the moon for Madonna. Sometimes I buy food they would eat (arctic smoked salmon for Fraser). Sometimes I look through my closet and think about the clothes they wear and what that says about them. Writing about flannel or silk or leather happens differently when you and your POV character are both wearing it.
As far as the dialogue itself, the thing is, they talk to each other. An episode of Due South isn't 45 minutes of silent brooding punctuated by car chases. They're chatty, snarky/courteous, opinionated guys, and it can be fun to start a scene in the middle of a conversation and let it run a little to see where they take it -- and then to see how it continues when an armed robbery (or whatever) interrupts their flirting and they have to do some actual policework before they can go home and make out over hockey and Chinese. *g*
I'm not sure if this covers what you were looking for in your questions -- or if it makes sense to anyone who isn't in my head, so please please ask questions and I'll try to make things clear! :D
And if anyone has other solutions for ways to better hear and convey voice -- or if you have other voice-related questions, please say so in comments!
Thanks!! :D
ETA: I forgot one thing I used to do all the time before my jaw started giving me trouble. Read aloud! Nothing tells you whether you have the flow of their voices down like actually speaking the words on the page (and it also helps you find those annoying elided and's and the's that you miss when skimming). :)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 10:26 pm (UTC)My problem is not really developing a voice, but staying true to it. When I posted Filler, one thing
So, uh. My point is - how would you go and try another facade of a voice without becoming entirely OOC? Would inserting known common phrases (I'm terribly fond of "before I die of waiting" and "pitter-patter") be enough or would that seem like not being tedious enough (yes, I know, I have issues and it's my goal in life to worry too much constantly. If I'd worry less, I probably wouldn't have so many stomachaches, but that's life)? How would you go about that? Without having to put a 500-word disclaimer before the story.
I adore you for #3. That never works for me. I don't really associate people with certain kinds of music (otherwise than who pimped me into what). Hm.
Very cool advice. :)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:22 pm (UTC)I think a lot of it could be handled by how you frame it. If you think about a story having a beginning, a middle, and an end, then the beginning could show the character using his voice as we're used to -- and then something happening to make him get very quiet and rethink the way he communicates. Then the middle would show him figuring out a new language, sort of test-driving it as he works out where he is in this new situation. Then the end would show him having fully integrated the new language into his new self, maybe without even realizing it.
I think if you leave off the beginning, you run the risk of confusing the reader -- especially in a case where we have such specific expectations about what a character sounds like because if it's a huge change from what we're used to as readers, we need to understand why it's different before we can accept it.
Another thing is my old writing profs always used to say "Resist the urge to explain!" Just show it and let the reader experience it along WITH the character. That way the change feels organic and we can appreciate the whole journey.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 07:07 am (UTC)I tried to show why the Ray I was working with seemed different than the one we're used to in the series. It's not as much a journey with the character, but looking at it from another angle. (I'm not explaining this very well, I think.)
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 10:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:07 pm (UTC)As for voice/dialogue--for me this is very much a two part process. Dialogue is very hard for me and so I tend to chip away at it--first, what is it that these characters want/need to say to each other (dialogue), and then how do they say it (voice). I tend to build dialogue by starting with the bare bones of what needs to be said to make the scene work, and then add the layers that make it interesting or revealing or true to the characters, and then I come back and look at the voices--the rhythm, the flow, the word choice, etc. Sometimes dialogue gets cut at this point because I realize the character is more likely to convey something by a gesture or a look.
But I always start with the skeleton of the dialogue--the conversation that's needed to push the story forward--and come back to voice.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:38 pm (UTC)I think that's why I like dialogue prompt challenges so much. It's like saying, "okay, you're on this rung of the ladder. Go!"
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 12:28 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 01:19 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 08:52 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:30 pm (UTC)One other thing I found helpful was changing the POV of the story or the line. For example, you could write it as Ray, then write it as Fraser. Or say the line as Ray, then see if you could ever hear Welsh saying it. The generic stuff isn't the problem, but if you're trying to develop a "Rayism" and you can hear Huey saying it with no problem, then it probaby doesn't belong to Ray.
You can't rely too much on "butter my muffin" etc. - if you watch the show and actually count the times Ray says it, it's probably under two. Those common phrases are quotable and in perfect voice, so everyone uses them, but it's similar with the "Judy, Judy, Judy" line mimics use for Cary Grant. He never said it, but it's so much in his voice, that everone in the audience recognizes it.
It isn't easy developing that ear. You may have strengths in other areas and can tap into the willing and wonderful betas out there. Their constructive criticism can help you "hear" your story.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:47 pm (UTC)That is beautifully put. Yay voice! :D
no subject
Date: 2007-02-13 11:59 pm (UTC)Dropping in the occasion 'cuz' or 'ya think' isn't going to pose a problem, but I find reading an entire story with what I've heard one person call "authentic voice" pretty frustrating.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 12:35 am (UTC)The only time it makes any sense to show it is if POV character totally can't understand what he's saying and it's directly relevant to the story. Or like, someone is tied up and talking around a gag and you're writing what POV-guy is hearing.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 09:02 am (UTC)I guess it comes down to how you're using it and why. Professional authors frequently make use of phonetic dialogue. If you've read David Adams Richards's "For Those Who Hunt the Wounded Down", the character CKR plays in the film speaks almost entirely in phonetic New Brunswick dialogue. So it can be done, but only with serious concessions to what becomes possible in the rest of the story. If you're writing phonetic dialogue for RayK it has to be done for a specific purpose - Fraser musing on the differences in their accents might justify it, I suppose, or if you're trying to illustrate some of the class/cultural barriers between RayK and Stella. I'm not sure if I've ever seen it done well in a story that relies heavily on this specific kind of dialgoue, but it must serve a purpose in small doses. I think.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 05:52 pm (UTC)I'm glad it's not just me, then. I have trouble with phonetic spelling in general because I'm not a native speaker. My default phonetic spelling is Italian, and it looks totally different. I have no trouble with ordinary spelling because I associate the sound with the word - when I read something, I tend to hear the words as if the person who plays the character had spoken them - but whenever anyone tries to emulate dialect that way I am immediately at sea.
It's difficult deciding where you should draw the line. I'm with you, I'd keep it simple and just stick to easily recognisable words, that way it doesn't stop you in your tracks.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 12:29 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 01:54 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 01:39 am (UTC)I'm having a really hard time with the colloquial expressions, because Ray's language is so vivid, and I struggle to replicate that. I've found that it helps, when I'm watching dS, to write down my favourite Ray phrases, especially the ones we don't hear very often in fandom (my new favourite is "Film at 11, or what?"). This has helped me to analyse exactly what my dialogue is lacking.
My biggest problem is that my own dialect keeps slipping in there where it's completely inappropriate. Words like 'rubbish', 'pavement', 'lift', 'courgette', even, god help me, 'candy floss'. And reading aloud doesn't seem to help because my accent has been honed by fourteen years in the British school system and I sound...well, I sound a bit like Fraser.
I know there are loads of dS writers out there who didn't grow up in America or Canada, and many of you don't even have English as a first language. Seriously, I'm in awe.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 02:07 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 08:57 am (UTC)Maybe someone needs to write a British-American dictionary?
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 05:23 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-18 10:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 02:18 am (UTC)custardpringle
2007-02-05 11:00 pm (local) (link)
. . . hi, can I jump in and offer advice here without stepping on any toes?
Because if you have at least a bit of free time on a regular basis, there is nothing like online RP for training you to "hear" character voices, because it really forces you to get into a character's headspace and think and react like they would, and to do it more automatically and fluidly.
I played some characters over the summer in
This is probably not exactly what you're looking for, but it helped me, so I figured I'd offer.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-14 04:23 am (UTC)She, ah, was ecstatic when I relayed your comment, btw. She's been trying to recruit a couple of us for ages, and then unexpected help from unexpected quarters!
no subject
Date: 2007-02-15 04:42 am (UTC)But I DO sometimes have trouble in longer stories, if I take a break and then have to coax the Muse back. Listening to a piece of music that evokes both the character and the mood of the story works best for me, in that case.
Catch-phrases are powerful cues, but they can easily overwhelm the subtler flavors of your character's voice. I personally think they are a bit over-used in DS.
no subject
Date: 2007-03-04 12:08 am (UTC)I have this problem too - there's nothing worse than being in the zone for the first half of a story, then completely losing your thread when you get back to it. I'll try the music thing, it might help.
And I'm with you - dialogue comes first and everything else goes in after. If I have a story coming at me so fast I can't keep up, I have to do the whole thing in just dialogue, so I can go back and fill in the other details (like a PLOT) once the story's done. Or else it just dries up on me.
no subject
Date: 2007-02-18 10:11 am (UTC)Another thing is my old writing profs always used to say "Resist the urge to explain!" (from one of your comments)
That is so cool! I love stories that start in media res, and let you accumulate a sense of what's going on.